|
|
Post by Admin on Jun 12, 2012 6:52:42 GMT
For me, by far, insomnia was the worst symptom for me. On two occasions I went three days straight without any sleep at all, and had to rely on daily sleep medication, which of course comes with its own set of problems.
Tell us how you cope or what experiences you've had with these symptoms.
|
|
|
|
Post by Admin on Jun 19, 2012 6:58:52 GMT
Yes I used to absolutely hate the thought of going to bed too, which was so weird because I always used to be such a good sleeper. I found that I also started to avoid invitations to go out at night for dinner, because I knew it was going to make it even harder to get to sleep.
It was just so frustrating to be desperate for sleep, but your body just not giving in to it. I don't know how I would have survived without sleeping meds, because my insomnia was so severe that I would just go for days without any sleep at all. I never went any more than 3 days without sleep, and that was bad enough. I sometimes wonder just how many days I could have survived without any sleep at all, but I really don't want to find out. No wonder sleep deprivation is a form of torture.
Since I've been on the oestradiol patches and Utrogestan I've been sleeping really well, to the point where I have been able to wean myself of all sleeping meds and ADs.
I do need a slightly higher dose of oestradiol now though. I was using 50mcg patches, but felt I needed to increase to 75mcg a while back, so started adding half a patch. I've tried a couple of times to see if I can reduce back down to 50mcg, but after a few days the insomnia starts to creep back. So next time I go back to the GP it looks like I'll have to get the 75 patches instead of the 50.
I received my Estreva gel the other day, so I’m using a couple of pumps with the 50 patch at the moment, but I actually think I prefer the patches. They’re sort of a set and forget type of thing (well for a few days anyway).
|
|
|
|
Post by jacksfullofaces on Jun 19, 2012 8:41:13 GMT
I used to fall asleep quickly and wake at 2 in the morning feeling wired and anxious and would remain awake for the night. The hormones stopped it but I get really annoyed when people try to advise counselling for hormonal sleeping disorder. It wasn't as though I was going to sleep feeling especially anxious or uptight and yet these idiots recommend therapy for a hormone deficiency.
Jacks
|
|
|
|
Post by Admin on Jun 19, 2012 22:25:26 GMT
I just love the term "sleep hygiene". What the eff does that mean anyway? I even had a "friend" tell me once that all I needed to do was learn how to meditate and that would solve my insomnia problem.
These people just have no idea what hormonal insomnia really is. I tried to explain it to my clueless "meditation" friend like this. Imagine if you had 20 cups of coffee right before going to bed. Do you really think that meditation would solve that? She never replied.... and we haven't spoken since.
I saw one doctor once who told me it was being caused by "psychological problems" and another doctor claimed I was simply depressed (both of them were men btw). Yeah I was depressed all right, but it was because I couldn't sleep. It wasn't the cause of the insomnia. I called both of them effing jerks and left their offices. They should know better than to mess with a stressed out menopausal insomniac woman....lol...
|
|
|
|
Post by Countrycottage on Jul 29, 2012 8:48:00 GMT
I didnt sleep from the minute I went into surgical menopause until last week without sleeping tablets...thats a year and a half! I need levels of at least 700 to sleep on....sooooooo nice to sleep!
one lady gp told me i couldnt sleep as i was mourning the loss of my womb..eh?
|
|
|
|
Post by Countrycottage on Jul 29, 2012 9:12:05 GMT
i know...i wanted to punch her  |
|
|
|
Post by Admin on Jul 29, 2012 9:20:11 GMT
one lady gp told me i couldnt sleep as i was mourning the loss of my womb..eh? Oh good lord!!! What is wrong with these people!! Do they tell men who've had a vasectomy that they're "mourning" the loss of their sperm? You were bloody well not sleeping because your effing hormones were totally screwed. Thank god modern medicine invented sleeping tablets, because I would have been a gibbering suicidal mess without them. God only knows how women with hormonal insomnia survived 100 years ago. |
|
gobe
Admin 
test
Posts: 913 
|
Post by gobe on Jul 29, 2012 9:59:26 GMT
Words fail me sometimes Hazeyj.
|
|
|
|
Post by Gelis on Jul 29, 2012 10:11:53 GMT
God only knows how women with hormonal insomnia survived 100 years ago.
100 years ago many of them were dead before they got to menopause, that's how! Many of the problems we are all suffering are relatively new, medically speaking, as in the past fewer people survived into their 50s, 60s or above.
We're all just waiting for the male medical establishment to catch up!
All joking apart, sleeplessness is horrible. I usually go to sleep with no problem at all, but I'm another one who reads for half the night after waking at around 2am or, at the moment, just tossing & turning because I can't get cool at all.
Gxx
|
|
|
|
Post by Admin on Jul 30, 2012 5:38:33 GMT
|
|
|
|
Post by Countrycottage on Aug 14, 2012 14:13:02 GMT
Oestrogen makes a massive difference to my sleep...for a year post bso i didnt sleep without nytol (gp refused to give me sleepers) and if i didnt have them i didnt sleep. Once i achived levels over 700 (uk levels) i found i could sleep on my own..i went over a year with no sleep...no idea how i functioned! x
|
|
|
|
Post by Robyn on Aug 15, 2012 0:52:57 GMT
I totally understand how people feel who have sleep problems. Since I became post menopausal 2 years ago, this has been my major problem. Give me hot flushes any day. Up until I turned 51 I never had any sleep problems at all, even during all my peri years. Then BAM - it hit me like a brick wall.
For nine months while I was on Livial (my first HRT) the problem completely disappeared, but when that stopped working at the end of last year, I have struggled constantly with insomnia ever since, due to having prog intolerance and now trying to find the right est HRT, but we soldier on.
I'm having a good day today because I slept well last night, with the help of my "mother's little helper" diazepam. Just hope that the Premarin will start to kick in soon and I can start to reduce my dosage.
|
|
|
|
Post by Countrycottage on Aug 15, 2012 20:56:08 GMT
Obviously my memory is stillnotcthat good ad I've posted pretty much the same comment two weeks apart! Did I mention I can't sleep with levels lower than 700? Ha ha x
|
|
|
|
Post by gillypanda on Aug 22, 2012 19:48:47 GMT
I'm another one who doesn't sleep well anymore I have always been able to sleep as my head hit the pillow, and get a decent 7-8 hours. No more! I nod off, start to boil even with a big fan blowing onto me, wake up and that's it. Most nights I'm awake every hour, and I get up around 6am. I've started swimming every morning at 7am before work. I had 2 slipped discs last year and my surgeon said if I wanted to avoid a risky operation I should start swimming. That's about the only place I'm always cool! |
|
susan
Member
I refuse to join any club that would have me as a member - Groucho Marx
Posts: 749
|
Post by susan on Aug 22, 2012 20:45:45 GMT
I'm another one who doesn't sleep well anymore I have always been able to sleep as my head hit the pillow, and get a decent 7-8 hours. No more! I nod off, start to boil even with a big fan blowing onto me, wake up and that's it. Most nights I'm awake every hour, and I get up around 6am. I've started swimming every morning at 7am before work. I had 2 slipped discs last year and my surgeon said if I wanted to avoid a risky operation I should start swimming. That's about the only place I'm always cool! Hi again Gillypanda I do think that if your insomnia has only come on with menopause there is a fighting chance that HRT could sort it. Don't like to make you any promises as we are all different. Unfortunately it didn't do anything for me in that respect, but the I have been a life long insomniac. Suffered for 30 years but a few years back I gave in and started taking a low dose sleeping tablet. When my GP prescribed me my HRT she actually said "maybe we can get you of those things now" meaning the sleepers so obviously she must feel that HRT has a role to play in menopausal sleep problems and her knowledge is pretty good on hormones for a GP - infanct I am clinging on to her for dear life in that respect. xxxx |
|
susan
Member
I refuse to join any club that would have me as a member - Groucho Marx
Posts: 749
|
Post by susan on Aug 22, 2012 21:32:14 GMT
Hi pinky  I'm on 10 mg amitryptilyne it's the 'pain killing dose' allegedly. I've got fibro & a rhumatologist put me on it donkeys years ago. It's not enough to get me to sleep anymore hence the zopi. But am to frightened to stop taking it just incase something drops off after all these years  I sound like a right junkie but the only things I actually take are the amitryp and zopi. Plus I keep slapping on that patch once a week. Sometimes I hate that I take anything & then I think about loads of others a similar age to me and they are on all sorts, then I feel guilty as it could be a lot worse. xxxx |
|
|
|
Post by Robyn on Aug 22, 2012 22:37:24 GMT
I seem to be doing better these days. I've been on the Premarin for a few weeks now and I've been able to reduce my diazepam dose down, and I'm sleeping really well each night. In fact most nights I can't keep my eyes open after about 9.30pm.
On the weekend I'm going to experiment with not taking the diazepam at all for one night - just to see what happens, but I don't want to stop taking it altogether yet. I need to reduce it down a bit more before I do that.
As my GP has said to me a number of times, you need to sleep, and that is far more important than taking a small dose of sleeping medication. I always keep that in mind when I take my little white tablet at night..lol...
|
|
|
|
Post by Gelis on Aug 23, 2012 7:20:02 GMT
Glad to hear that you are sleeping better, Robyn!
Gxx
|
|
|
|
Post by jacksfullofaces on Aug 23, 2012 9:39:29 GMT
Susan
Why don't you try DHEA for joint pain - it works swonders.
Jacks
|
|
susan
Member
I refuse to join any club that would have me as a member - Groucho Marx
Posts: 749
|
Post by susan on Aug 23, 2012 12:55:38 GMT
I'm glad to hear you are sleeping a bit better Robyn. I agree with your Doctor. Last night I slept from 1am to 2.30am and about 4.30am to 6.30 am.  Three and a half hours. I daren't sleep during the day to catch up though. Jacks have you put any posts/new threads up on here about DHEA? I would be interested and I would imagine others might be as well. But I dont really know anything about it or how to go about getting it. I think we had a thread on the Mother Ship about it once and as a result silverlady pmed me a link where I could buy it, but or course I haven't got access to any of my pm information as I wasn't really prepared for my swift banning. xxxx |
|
shimmy
Member
You only live once, but if you work it right, once is enough.
Posts: 98
|
Post by shimmy on Aug 23, 2012 13:10:33 GMT
'm one of those women, who has suffered from sleep problems since the menopause. I used to be able to sleep like the dead( my dear dad's expression). Never have problems getting to sleep but always wake up about 2am and every hr(if i'm lucky enough to fall back to sleep) thee after.
Don't want to tempt fate.....I started taking femoston conti a week ago and last night I slept from 11pm to 6pm without getting up for the loo.
|
|
susan
Member
I refuse to join any club that would have me as a member - Groucho Marx
Posts: 749
|
Post by susan on Aug 23, 2012 13:16:27 GMT
Thats fantastic news Shimmy. I really hope it continues to work for you. I do think if the insommnia only comes with the menopause there is a really good chance that the right dose of HRT has a good chance of sorting it out.  xxxx |
|
|
|
Post by jacksfullofaces on Aug 23, 2012 13:46:28 GMT
I'm glad to hear you are sleeping a bit better Robyn. I agree with your Doctor. Last night I slept from 1am to 2.30am and about 4.30am to 6.30 am. Three and a half hours. I daren't sleep during the day to catch up though. Jacks have you put any posts/new threads up on here about DHEA? I would be interested and I would imagine others might be as well. But I dont really know anything about it or how to go about getting it. I think we had a thread on the Mother Ship about it once and as a result silverlady pmed me a link where I could buy it, but or course I haven't got access to any of my pm information as I wasn't really prepared for my swift banning. xxxx [/quote Susan here you are. I also recommend a book by RThierry Hertoghe Hormone Solution www.vitasunn.co.uk/It is excellent for muscle and joint pain. Jacks |
|
susan
Member
I refuse to join any club that would have me as a member - Groucho Marx
Posts: 749
|
Post by susan on Aug 23, 2012 14:00:06 GMT
Thanks Jacks, I will look into it.
xxxx
|
|
|
|
Post by Robyn on Aug 24, 2012 6:58:18 GMT
'm one of those women, who has suffered from sleep problems since the menopause. I used to be able to sleep like the dead( my dear dad's expression). Never have problems getting to sleep but always wake up about 2am and every hr(if i'm lucky enough to fall back to sleep) thee after. Don't want to tempt fate.....I started taking femoston conti a week ago and last night I slept from 11pm to 6pm without getting up for the loo. I was exactly like you Shimmy. I could sleep just about anywhere, but all that changed exactly 2 months after my 51st birthday. I've had a lot of ups and downs with HRT, but I agree with Susan. If you can get on to the right HRT hopefully it should fix the insomnia problem. So my fingers are crossed for you because if you sleep well you can cope with a lot more during the day. |
|
shimmy
Member
You only live once, but if you work it right, once is enough.
Posts: 98
|
Post by shimmy on Aug 24, 2012 8:35:14 GMT
Thank you Susan & Robyn. I agree, a good nights sleep works wonders. Slept quite well last night. Did get woken up a couple of times by my OH snoring but managed to get back to sleep |
|
susan
Member
I refuse to join any club that would have me as a member - Groucho Marx
Posts: 749
|
Post by susan on Aug 24, 2012 9:29:09 GMT
Hi Robyn, You gave me some good information about sleep minerals that you were using via pm on another forum. Needless to say I have lost access to all that now. I was wondering (unless it's on here and I have missed it in which case apologies) if it would be worth putting it up I the ' alternatives' section ? I was seriously considering using them to try and help wean off the zopiclone but then decided, a bit like you did, that at the end of the day it was only one very small dose and why was I getting so hung up about it? But I might still want to do it in the future and the sleep mineral information would be good for that if you still have it. xxxx Hi Shimmy I took Femoston Conti for 15 months it was great for me. Unfortunately had to come off it due to spotting, although this was more to please my GP than me, as it was very slight and sporadic so I was happy to put up with it. |
|
|
|
Post by Robyn on Aug 24, 2012 23:34:43 GMT
Hi Susan No I don't think I have ever posted the sleep minerals information here (maybe I had a mental block because I got a rap over the knuckles for posting the link somewhere else...lol..). I'm not sure if they work or not, but they are natural (ie just basically magnesium and calcium), so they really can't do any harm, and we can all do with more magnesium in our diets anyway. I use them from time to time, but I find they work better if your insomnia isn't too bad, but you just need something to relax you a bit. I've only got about a third of a bottle left, so I'm ordering some more this weekend, because I think they are worth having, even if it's just more as a psychological aid, which sometimes I think can be just a useful anyway. I'm heading out soon, so I will post more information on another thread later today. Also, I know you are happy taking the zopi, and I think we have had the discussion about diazepam before, but would you like me to post some more informaton about that? If you are wanting to try to reduce and/or wean yourself off zopi, diazepam really is the way to do it. You won't be able to reduce your dose of zopi slow enough or in small enough increments the way you can with diazepam. I can post quite a bit of information about that too. If you're only taking (from memory) 3.75mg of zopi you would be on a very low dose of diazepam (approx 2.5mg which is teeny tiny - considering I was just reading something this morning about someone having to reduce their dose down from 50mg!!!!  ), so it's really not harmful to you at all, and it is much gentler on your body because your blood levels drop much more slowly with diazepman when you are weaning yourself of it than it does with other types of sleeping medication. |
|
susan
Member
I refuse to join any club that would have me as a member - Groucho Marx
Posts: 749
|
Post by susan on Aug 25, 2012 14:29:09 GMT
Hi Robyn
I typed a reply last night & then just as I was about to submitt it, my computer crashed. Typical !
I was interested in this when you posted it before & you were kind enough to send me some very comprehensive information by pm, which of course I thought I would always have access to forever.
As you know I'm not a great one for alternatives due mainly to the fact that those I have tried have not worked so I came to the somewhat cynical conculsion that most were money spinners.
I'm particularly sceptical about them as a substitute for HRT which basically I see as an oestrogen supplement anyway, rather than some hard core med that needs to be avoided at all costs. But I like to keep an open mind about them for other matters and sleep minerals did interest me.
Particularly as I'm sure in my case HRT will not deal with my sleep issues as they are long term, not just brought on by menopause. My thinking was maybe the info might make a useful addition to the 'alternatives' section on the forum. It's so much better when someone has tried something and post pros, cons etc.
I have seen that you have put a post of on them so many thanks.
Regarding th information on diazepam maybe you coudd put up a bit about it on this thread, although I don't know if there are many currently here on prescribed sleeping tablets, but we may have guest viewers who are. I'm pretty certain my own GP would not prescribe me diazepam as a means to stop taking a small amount of zopiclone. I'm not sure how it is over there but in the UK it is seen as a kind of boggy drug, there is a huge black market for it and they (the establishment/NHS etc) worry that people get it to sell it on. So it is more complicated than the medication itself there is a poltical context to it. This does not happend with zopiclone so I think there is a protocol on prescribing.
However all information on such matters is helpful & as MSI is an International forum, I think it is important to have all information available and the means to discuss it, in case there are others that can dip in and put it to good use.
xxxx
|
|
|
|
Post by Robyn on Aug 25, 2012 21:59:35 GMT
I will make a separate thread about sleeping medications. Ironically the doctor who advocates the use of diazepam is actually from the UK. Professor Heather Ashton's "Ashton Method" is widely referred to when people want to wean themselves off sleeping medications, and her first recommendation is always to switch to diazepam before attempting to reduce your medication, simply because you can do it so much slower without affecting your blood levels too much. I lady I used to PM a lot on MM is also from the UK and her doctor had her on diazepam, so maybe it's more your own doctor's opinion rather than a general thing with all doctors. Anyway, I'm not trying to get you to change, because I know it's a touchy subject with a lot people (which I learned to my dismay on MM...lol..), but here are a couple of links you might want to look at. www.benzo.org.uk/profash.htmwww.benzo.org.uk/manual/index.htm |
|
Three and a half hours. I daren't sleep during the day to catch up though.
), so it's really not harmful to you at all, and it is much gentler on your body because your blood levels drop much more slowly with diazepman when you are weaning yourself of it than it does with other types of sleeping medication.