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Post by Robyn on Sept 10, 2012 7:20:11 GMT
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Post by jacksfullofaces on Sept 10, 2012 20:32:24 GMT
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Post by Robyn on Sept 11, 2012 0:06:30 GMT
Great link Jacks. I think though that we need to point out that you don't need to use the unregulated compounded hormones to get "bio identical hormones", which is what a lot people think when they hear the word "bio identical".
I'm not sure what it's like in the UK, but here in Australia we were bombarded by the likes of Oprah, Suzanne Somers and Robin McGraw spruiking their nonsense about being only able to get bio identicals by paying enormous amounts of money to compounding pharmacies/companies. So when women hear "bio identicals" they immediately think of the compounded stuff, but as we all know you can get bio identical hormones through regular doctors, and we have been able to do so for a long time. Plus here in Australia most HRTs are covered by our PBS system, which means they are usually pretty cheap to buy.
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susan
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I refuse to join any club that would have me as a member - Groucho Marx
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Post by susan on Sept 11, 2012 12:25:43 GMT
Great link Jacks. I think though that we need to point out that you don't need to use the unregulated compounded hormones to get "bio identical hormones", which is what a lot people think when they hear the word "bio identical". I'm not sure what it's like in the UK, but here in Australia we were bombarded by the likes of Oprah, Suzanne Somers and Robin McGraw spruiking their nonsense about being only able to get bio identicals by paying enormous amounts of money to compounding pharmacies/companies. So when women hear "bio identicals" they immediately think of the compounded stuff, but as we all know you can get bio identical hormones through regular doctors, and we have been able to do so for a long time. Plus here in Australia most HRTs are covered by our PBS system, which means they are usually pretty cheap to buy. In the uk most women wouldn't know what a compounding pharmacy was if we fell over one in the street. We have a population of 80 million and maybe one or two at most. although goodness knows where. Women have been terrified out of taking any type of HRT by our scaremongering press,and the UK mentality (apart from celebtities) has an inbuilt resistence to paying for anything medical if at all possible, unless they are one of the minority that get BUPA through an employment package - and then they are still not really buying it, its an insurance deal. I would imagine people like Oprah, Suzanne Somers etc are paid (albeit indirectly) huge monetary amounts to make women think that compounded hormones are the only way to go, I wouldn't trust them as far as I could spit. It simply will not happen here. Either HRT will die out altogether as the NHS will prescribe it less and less and keep us all doped up to our eyeballs on AD's saying that is the only safe way to go for women between 40 and 60plus or women will vote with their voices and continue to press for HRT via the NHS. Folk here are also terrified to buy direct off of the internet as there has been a campaign of scare storys that says you will basically either be buying 'chalk' (which is considered the lesser of the two evils) or buying something that is in some way contaminated and will kill or harm you. This dosen't just apply to HRT but all medication. If you go to major drugs websites, for example Canadian ones, they sell all over the world and then have a little disclaimer at the bottom of their sites to say they cant sell to the UK because of such and such an act, although I have heard that whilst they put it on their sites they dont always stick to it. The NHS are powerful as they are the largest purchaser of medication in Europe and are alsi control freaks from top to bottom. |
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shimmy
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Post by shimmy on Sept 11, 2012 15:48:26 GMT
My step-mum started hrt in 1988 and is still on it (Livial) and she is 73yrs. She looks really good for her age and she is adament while she is healthy she will stay on it.
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susan
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Post by susan on Sept 11, 2012 16:02:31 GMT
Its good to read posts like that sweetpea and shimmy.
Ive a long term success story of HRT but it is a friends Mum, who was on premarin for many many years and is now over 80. She is also a breast cancer survivor.
I can't reference it but have read various artcles that mention that those who get BC & have been on HRT have a higher survival rate than those who have never been on HRT.
Sadly I know two women one of whom died in her forties of BC who never took HRT and another who had a double masectomy at 35 who never took it (nowhere near meno when she got it).
Lots of this stuff seems to be in the lap of the Gods or maybe the genes.
xxxx
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Post by jacksfullofaces on Sept 11, 2012 16:04:39 GMT
Great link Jacks. I think though that we need to point out that you don't need to use the unregulated compounded hormones to get "bio identical hormones", which is what a lot people think when they hear the word "bio identical". I'm not sure what it's like in the UK, but here in Australia we were bombarded by the likes of Oprah, Suzanne Somers and Robin McGraw spruiking their nonsense about being only able to get bio identicals by paying enormous amounts of money to compounding pharmacies/companies. So when women hear "bio identicals" they immediately think of the compounded stuff, but as we all know you can get bio identical hormones through regular doctors, and we have been able to do so for a long time. Plus here in Australia most HRTs are covered by our PBS system, which means they are usually pretty cheap to buy. In the uk most women wouldn't know what a compounding pharmacy was if we fell over one in the street. We have a population of 80 million and maybe one or two at most. although goodness knows where. Women have been terrified out of taking any type of HRT by our scaremongering press,and the UK mentality (apart from celebtities) has an inbuilt resistence to paying for anything medical if at all possible, unless they are one of the minority that get BUPA through an employment package - and then they are still not really buying it, its an insurance deal. I would imagine people like Oprah, Suzanne Somers etc are paid (albeit indirectly) huge monetary amounts to make women think that compounded hormones are the only way to go, I wouldn't trust them as far as I could spit. It simply will not happen here. Either HRT will die out altogether as the NHS will prescribe it less and less and keep us all doped up to our eyeballs on AD's saying that is the only safe way to go for women between 40 and 60plus or women will vote with their voices and continue to press for HRT via the NHS. Folk here are also terrified to buy direct off of the internet as there has been a campaign of scare storys that says you will basically either be buying 'chalk' (which is considered the lesser of the two evils) or buying something that is in some way contaminated and will kill or harm you. This dosen't just apply to HRT but all medication. If you go to major drugs websites, for example Canadian ones, they sell all over the world and then have a little disclaimer at the bottom of their sites to say they cant sell to the UK because of such and such an act, although I have heard that whilst they put it on their sites they dont always stick to it. The NHS are powerful as they are the largest purchaser of medication in Europe and are alsi control freaks from top to bottom. Susan I agree they are control freaks I know of a compounding pharmacy in London and they are not hugely expensive. But the British mentality does have an inbuilt horror of paying for treatment although I have frequently paid for stuff. The problem with BUPA is once you claim premiums rocket - so we haven't used ours so far. Jacks |
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susan
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Post by susan on Sept 11, 2012 16:13:55 GMT
Yes BUPA only really works if you are in an employer scheme, otherwise you can end up paying £200 a month for very little & they will never cover pre-existing conditions anyway.
They are dodgy on menopause as to if it is covered as of course there is the 'well it isn't actually an illness' get out of jail free card they can play.
So you are bugg@ed whatever way you go with them.
Also they have loads of 'plans' some of them have weird clauses like you can't use it if you get treatment on the NHS within eight weeks, whatever the heck that means, as they can seem to be able to deem what 'treatment' is and their idea might not be mine.
Also there is one with reduced monthly premiums but then you pay your first £5000 of treatment.
Hardly much use to the 'man in the street.'
A nation where women baulk at paying a double prescription charge for peri-menopausal HRT with oestrogen and progesterone to an extent where they try and say they are post menopausal to save £7.50 is hardly going to rush off to a compounding pharmacy and fork out thousands !
xxxx
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Post by jacksfullofaces on Sept 11, 2012 19:12:23 GMT
Pinky
In the policy it refuses to cover menopause
Jacks
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Post by jacksfullofaces on Sept 11, 2012 19:18:07 GMT
Yes BUPA only really works if you are in an employer scheme, otherwise you can end up paying £200 a month for very little & they will never cover pre-existing conditions anyway. They are dodgy on menopause as to if it is covered as of course there is the 'well it isn't actually an illness' get out of jail free card they can play. So you are bugg@ed whatever way you go with them. Also they have loads of 'plans' some of them have weird clauses like you can't use it if you get treatment on the NHS within eight weeks, whatever the heck that means, as they can seem to be able to deem what 'treatment' is and their idea might not be mine. Also there is one with reduced monthly premiums but then you pay your first £5000 of treatment. Hardly much use to the 'man in the street.' A nation where women baulk at paying a double prescription charge for peri-menopausal HRT with oestrogen and progesterone to an extent where they try and say they are post menopausal to save £7.50 is hardly going to rush off to a compounding pharmacy and fork out thousands ! xxxx Susan So far I have paid for consultations with gastroenterologist, gynaecological surgery in my twenties (bill was £5,000). Dental work has run at about £10,000. Seeing specialist for anti ageing menopause consultations approximately £4,000.Incidentally oestrogel costs about £7 a tube privately and Utrogestan approximately £10 a box. In our house we have sort of gotten used to the idea of often paying for treatment. Oh and emergency private GP £80 at one time when NHS Direct refused to allow me to sdpeak to a doctor because I refused to reveal ethnicity and kept repeating the words "human" Jacks |
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Post by jacksfullofaces on Sept 11, 2012 19:28:51 GMT
Yes I know - I'm thinking of buying a subscription.
Jacks
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Post by jacksfullofaces on Sept 11, 2012 20:29:37 GMT
The grand finale came with me hurling the telephone at the wall and shouting for husband to find private GP! ;D
Jacks
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Post by Robyn on Sept 12, 2012 6:53:09 GMT
That is my soap-box moment over - but yes Rambo - and others - no-one needs to worry about compounding in the UK - as we can get our bio-identicals on the NHS. It seesm to be mainly these American sites that push it and all these other weird dubious products that are unproven - just because they can, and they do not have the same healthcare system as we do - so everyone seems to advertise their wares freely, sadly preying on the vulnerable Bellaciao x Yes we also get our bio-identicals on PBS (similar to your NHS), with the exception of progesterone. We still don’t have a bio-identical one available (like Utrogestan) and I’m not sure when we will. However it is available online, and I’m happy to buy mine that way because it’s cheap as chips to buy, even taking postage into account, and my GP is fine with me doing that. I’m glad you ladies in the UK don’t have the same issues with the compounded hormones. I believe it is becoming a growing industry in America and it’s becoming that way in Australia. I know of 3 GPs and 3 compounding pharmacies all within about a 45 minute drive from my home that push the stuff. Plus there is an online company (I won’t name them because I don’t want to give them any free advertising), that prescribes them over the phone!! All they are doing is cashing in on the scaremongering that has gone on for so long about HRT, and worshipping at the Oprah altar. This is why I want to make sure that when we talk about “bioidentical” hormones, people know that we ARE NOT talking about the compounded bioidenticals, because as our membership increases we may have people from other countries, where this is an issue, reading this information and being confused about what we are talking about. |
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Post by jacksfullofaces on Sept 12, 2012 9:54:55 GMT
That is my soap-box moment over - but yes Rambo - and others - no-one needs to worry about compounding in the UK - as we can get our bio-identicals on the NHS. It seesm to be mainly these American sites that push it and all these other weird dubious products that are unproven - just because they can, and they do not have the same healthcare system as we do - so everyone seems to advertise their wares freely, sadly preying on the vulnerable Bellaciao x Yes we also get our bio-identicals on PBS (similar to your NHS), with the exception of progesterone. We still don’t have a bio-identical one available (like Utrogestan) and I’m not sure when we will. However it is available online, and I’m happy to buy mine that way because it’s cheap as chips to buy, even taking postage into account, and my GP is fine with me doing that. I’m glad you ladies in the UK don’t have the same issues with the compounded hormones. I believe it is becoming a growing industry in America and it’s becoming that way in Australia. I know of 3 GPs and 3 compounding pharmacies all within about a 45 minute drive from my home that push the stuff. Plus there is an online company (I won’t name them because I don’t want to give them any free advertising), that prescribes them over the phone!! All they are doing is cashing in on the scaremongering that has gone on for so long about HRT, and worshipping at the Oprah altar. This is why I want to make sure that when we talk about “bioidentical” hormones, people know that we ARE NOT talking about the compounded bioidenticals, because as our membership increases we may have people from other countries, where this is an issue, reading this information and being confused about what we are talking about. Just one important point. In the Uk there are no "female" strength testosterone gels available unless you buy the compounded version. I have a large tub in my drawer. Jacks |
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susan
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I refuse to join any club that would have me as a member - Groucho Marx
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Post by susan on Sept 12, 2012 11:40:03 GMT
Yes BUPA only really works if you are in an employer scheme, otherwise you can end up paying £200 a month for very little & they will never cover pre-existing conditions anyway. They are dodgy on menopause as to if it is covered as of course there is the 'well it isn't actually an illness' get out of jail free card they can play. So you are bugg@ed whatever way you go with them. Also they have loads of 'plans' some of them have weird clauses like you can't use it if you get treatment on the NHS within eight weeks, whatever the heck that means, as they can seem to be able to deem what 'treatment' is and their idea might not be mine. Also there is one with reduced monthly premiums but then you pay your first £5000 of treatment. Hardly much use to the 'man in the street.' A nation where women baulk at paying a double prescription charge for peri-menopausal HRT with oestrogen and progesterone to an extent where they try and say they are post menopausal to save £7.50 is hardly going to rush off to a compounding pharmacy and fork out thousands ! xxxx Susan So far I have paid for consultations with gastroenterologist, gynaecological surgery in my twenties (bill was £5,000). Dental work has run at about £10,000. Seeing specialist for anti ageing menopause consultations approximately £4,000.Incidentally oestrogel costs about £7 a tube privately and Utrogestan approximately £10 a box. In our house we have sort of gotten used to the idea of often paying for treatment. Oh and emergency private GP £80 at one time when NHS Direct refused to allow me to sdpeak to a doctor because I refused to reveal ethnicity and kept repeating the words "human" Jacks Jacks could you pm me where you can get utrogestan for £10 box. Can I just buy it or would it be from a place where you have to go for an expensive consultation in the first instance? I don't need a £250 consultation as I know what I need so don't want to part with a shedload of cash to be told take 100 mgs of utro for 25 days with oestrogel, as I can work that out for myself due to being able to read ! I cant be bothered with my GP as she insists I need 200 mg for a lesser time, even though I have been on 3 conti HRT's. As I havent bleed for 5 or 6 years I have absolutely no interest in a bleed at all. I also don't want to buy from abroad as while I trust the actual products the sites are rife with Credit Card Fraud, due to them not using financially secure systems like we have in the UK. xxxx |
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Post by jacksfullofaces on Sept 12, 2012 13:36:40 GMT
Susan So far I have paid for consultations with gastroenterologist, gynaecological surgery in my twenties (bill was £5,000). Dental work has run at about £10,000. Seeing specialist for anti ageing menopause consultations approximately £4,000.Incidentally oestrogel costs about £7 a tube privately and Utrogestan approximately £10 a box. In our house we have sort of gotten used to the idea of often paying for treatment. Oh and emergency private GP £80 at one time when NHS Direct refused to allow me to sdpeak to a doctor because I refused to reveal ethnicity and kept repeating the words "human" Jacks Jacks could you pm me where you can get utrogestan for £10 box. Can I just buy it or would it be from a place where you have to go for an expensive consultation in the first instance? I don't need a £250 consultation as I know what I need so don't want to part with a shedload of cash to be told take 100 mgs of utro for 25 days with oestrogel, as I can work that out for myself due to being able to read ! I cant be bothered with my GP as she insists I need 200 mg for a lesser time, even though I have been on 3 conti HRT's. As I havent bleed for 5 or 6 years I have absolutely no interest in a bleed at all. I also don't want to buy from abroad as while I trust the actual products the sites are rife with Credit Card Fraud, due to them not using financially secure systems like we have in the UK. xxxx Susan This was a private prescription Jacks |
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susan
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Post by susan on Sept 12, 2012 15:34:35 GMT
Thanks Jacks. I think it was 10 euros a pack in Spain in the Chemist so similar price really, but they only had the 200 mg in stock.
xxxx
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susan
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Post by susan on Sept 12, 2012 21:30:41 GMT
Hi Susan Sorry to hear about your GP - but she is simply wrong if she is giving you that information. The SPC clearly states the conti dose is 100 mg daily - although it does say from days 1-25 - however the literature confirms that this can be given continuously as endometrial protection (ie 3 more days). Maybe it was licensed in this way to give what is known as a "challenge" ie so that if you withdraw the progesterone any lining would come away - but there shouldn't be any if the dose of oestrogen is not high. I managed to get 6 months worth of HRT in one prescription from my GP, but most will prescribe 3 months so that would be 3 boxes for £7.60 or whatever the charge is - a lot less than £10 a box!! Cost on the MM site is given at just over a fiver for a box of 30!!!! Good luck with your GP if you decide to persist... Bellaciao x Hi sorry Bella only just come back on. I know she is wrong but I don't have the stomach for the fight. Sometimes my Fibromyalgia makes me mentally as well as physically exhausted.. TBH I am surprised women ever get anything other Elleste and Prempak as our GP 's are not really interested. I have what I consider a good one and still can't be bothered to fight for what I need. I am not surprised that nine out of ten women in meno either take the AD 's or go on crap like menopace because their GP's tell them to go to Holland and Barrett. I think I am assertive but find it eaiser to air for a holiday and buy stuff in Spain rather than have to tell them their jobs. I can't decide who is more pathetic them or me.  |
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susan
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Post by susan on Sept 12, 2012 22:37:10 GMT
Apologies I think I am just felling a bit low and sorry for myself and well off topic from is HRT safe which I beleive it is.
I was saying earlier today that I intend to be on HRT long term and so feel obliged to try utrogestan and a seperate estradiol as obviously although FemSeven has bio identical oestrogen the prog is of course synthetic and I guess its no good to be on synthetic prog endlessly.
But I just can't be bothered with it all at the moment, I have already had Kliofem, Femoston Conti, FemSeven Conti, OEstrodose with the wrong dose of utrogestan prescribed to go with it and vagifem.
I know it will get to the point where she sighs when I walk in the rooms. Even though between me and my husband we hav e paid into the NHS for over 70 years, so it is hardly free. Also if she changes me and I hate utrogestan as some do I have yet another visit to go back to what I was on before.
I currently feel sick of it all and would rather be able to buy it at a reasonable price without being ripped off by Private Doctors or at the mercy of potentially dodgy Internet sites. It's hardly some weird dangerous drug that I am after.
xxxx
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Post by Robyn on Sept 13, 2012 7:13:26 GMT
Susan – I know you’re not keen on buying Utrogesten on line, but Candy and I do, and neither of us have ever had a problem with it. They are prompt and quite cheap. You can read more about it on this thread. menopausesupport.proboards.com/index.cgi?board=faqs&action=display&thread=331I’m sorry you’re not feeling great at the moment. I know you have sleep problems, but what else is going on? |
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susan
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Post by susan on Sept 13, 2012 7:41:57 GMT
Not sure Rambo, slight depression maybe, the normal sort of midlife stuff, hopefully nothing I wont be able to get over. Was very tired yesterday as had bad nights on both Monday night and Tuesday night.
Plus the whole HRT thing of really feeling like I should try utrogestan as been on HRT for two and a half years and always been on synthetic progesterone even though the oestrogen has been bio-identical. even though I know for the first three years the risks for those who take HRT are exactly the same as those who don't take HRT.
Then I think to myself a lot of women would be pleased to feel how I do on standard HRT so feel quilty for moaning.
Thank you for the link I will have a look.
xxxx
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Post by Robyn on Sept 13, 2012 8:00:25 GMT
I'm really sorry Susan. I hope you start to feel better soon.
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susan
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Post by susan on Sept 13, 2012 8:05:57 GMT
Thanks Rambo, I need to give myself a good talking to lol. I think i feel a bit better today. Booked to have my hair done next week and lunch with a couple of girlfriends - sometimes it's the little things that can cheer you up and make life worth living.
Is it night time there ? If so I hope you have a good sleep.
xxxx
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Post by Robyn on Sept 13, 2012 8:11:48 GMT
Yes, it's just after 6pm and I've just finished dinner. I've been sleeping really well lately, because I have come to the conclusion that my problem has been me trying to reduce my sleeping medication too quickly. I thought I was doing it slowly enough, but maybe I'm just a bit sensitive to it. That's how much of a trap that stuff can be.
So I am now just reducing by 0.25mg every 5-7 days. It will take a few months to get off it totally, but that's just what you have to do.
I hope you sleep well tonight too. Everything seems better when you sleep well.
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susan
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Post by susan on Sept 13, 2012 8:14:40 GMT
Glad you're sleeping better. I think sometimes we get hung up worrying about what we are taking and that is part of the thing that stops us from sleeping. So ironic really. We have to do our best to get by & get on top it. It's not like we are knocking back a bottle of scotch to get us off to sleep, perhaps we are making too big a thing of it.
xxxx
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Post by Robyn on Sept 13, 2012 8:20:20 GMT
I've also come to terms with the fact that I might never be able to stop taking a very small dose of sleeping meds completely, because my main meno symptom has always been insomnia, so I might be stuck with that for the rest of my life. But that's fine. As my doctor always says, she would much prefer I take a small dose of meds than not get any sleep.
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Post by jacksfullofaces on Sept 13, 2012 9:43:37 GMT
Susan
You might find a low dose of DHEA helpful for your fybromyalgia - Thierry Hertoghe recommends it for this purpose. You do sound a bit off form I wonder if you need to increase your estradiol slightly?
Don't worry too much about the artifical progestin if it suits you. Even the scaremongerers didn't make the figures very different. The risk went from 43/1000 to 44/1000 for breast cancer - a mathematical blip.
Jacks
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susan
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Post by susan on Sept 13, 2012 9:54:24 GMT
Thanks Jacks, yep felt a bit down yesterday.
I don't think I was thinking of breast cancer really, I was thinking of the other one is it endometrial cancer ?
I'm not great at reading and interpreting all the scientific data as I find it a bit heavy going, that's why it's great to be on a forum with the likes of you and Bella who can re-interpret it for a lay person to understand.
But I thought that as the many years roll by synthetic progesterone is thought to be worse in this respect than bio-identical progesterone's like utrogestan.
I think I am only happy when I have something to worry about !
xxxx
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Post by jacksfullofaces on Sept 13, 2012 10:14:14 GMT
www.nlm.nih.gov/medlineplus/druginfo/natural/331.htmlI find a low dose of this very helpful for muscle pain. I don't use a high dose and as I run naturally good levels I save it for muscle pain - EDS causes quite a lot of pain and I'm neither happy to use analgesics and also resistant because of my EDS. I normally take the odd dose of 25 mg. My husband uses 25 mg daily but men do have higher levels.If I were using this hormone daily I would probably use a dose of about 10mg daily. It is easy to know if you are taking too much - the zits arrive with a vengeance. Jacks
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susan
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Post by susan on Sept 13, 2012 13:34:49 GMT
Thanks Jacks
xxxx
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