Weird ideas on how to treat menopause

[susan]

It's probably just me, but menopause tends to throw up at least ten often more external symptoms in most women.

But what I can never get my head around is when people choose to treat each and every one of them with an individual preparation.

Thus 10 symptoms, 10 different things going into their bodys mainly via their throat each day.

I think I have an issue with treating the symptoms rather than the source which is normally lack of oestogen, progesterone or even testosterone. Say you get all 35 symptoms do you then take 35 products ? I guess not and you just have to prioritise the ones you do deal with and poke up with the others.

The idea of getting up in the morning and taking ten different pills to deal with something is competely alien to my way of thinking if I can just take one or two (would rather be well enough to take nothing).

There seems to be a school of thought that it's dreadful to put too much prescribed by Doctors through your liver and stomach a bowels but it's fine to put ten items from a health food shop through your liver, stomach, bowels.

I'm no medic but common sense says to me that they will destroy my stomach, liver etc just as much as anything else & so I can't for the life of me see why people think they are 'safer' for their health.

I wish someone could explain to me in lay persons terms how this would be so much better for me, as so far I have never seen a convincing argument for it.

xxxx

[jacksfullofaces]

Susan
It is snake oil and designed to line the pockets of the pushers of alternative remedies. I agree it is far from harmless. I parted with my specialist when she advised me to take a large dose of vitamin A. I was not happy to subject my liver to this treatment.
In one book I read that auto immune thyroid disease is caused by self hatred as a child - more snake oil. If the complaint is female or menopause it attracts snake oil because men are less inclined to be convinced by hocus pocus.
I have written a chapter about this in my book.
Jacks

[susan]

Hi Jacks

I'm a kind of each to their own person on many things, which may be hard to beleive.

But one of the things that really concerns me about this is if you take 10 different things or even just 4 or 5 there seems to be no knowledge or expertise on how any one of these products interacts with any other of these products. So not only might you not be doing yourself any good but you may actually be doing yourself harm. it all seems pretty unsatisfactory to me. I know hormones aren't the be all and end all of everything but they just seem safer to me provided you use the amount you need. At least they are double blind tested for what that is worth and also when they are prescribed the medic has normally got your full service history infront of them (if they bother to look at it) and other meds so they are not prescribing blind and in a vacume.

xxxx

[Gelis]

I quite agree. Sometimes, with drugs, what works for the individual is a process of trial and error - as with hormone replacement. The "alternative" things are also trial & error, but you have no idea whether what you are taking may have serious implications due to interaction.

I'm seriously allergic to a large number of antibiotics, for instance, and I'm as nervous as hell taking any that I haven't had before, but at least I can talk to a doctor or pharmacist about it and know that what they recommend should be safe for me.

I was lucky with HRT, as Femoston suited me very well, but I took Premarin for a while when Femoston became unavailable and I felt terrible - I told my GP and she found another way for me to have the constituents of Femoston separately. If this had been something off the shelf I wouldn't have known what was making me unwell or how to deal with it. I took a supplement for a while here, as it was recommended by the gynae, so I reckoned it was safe. It just didn't do much, but there were no adverse effects.

I feel sad that so many women are so desperate that they resort to some of the weirder remedies which cost a lot and may do nothing at best and harm at worst.

Gxx

[susan]

I think it's sad as well Gelis as unfortunately women are desperate I've heard some say with regards to Premarin and it's ethical considerations that they just don't care and feel so ill that they would drink from the horse itself if they thought it would bring them relief and you can tell that the comments are only partly tongue in cheek. But was does worry me and I really don't mean this unkindly to the women themselves as they're desperate so they can become gullible and at that point the unscrupulous then pounce and end up extracting large amounts of money from them

xxxx

[jacksfullofaces]

For example £20 for a magnet pinned in the knickers and one site offers a vitamin supplement for £76 a month. I have no hesitation in reporting these people to the Advertising Standards Authority and the makers of Omega7 who claimed to increase vaginal lubrication were forced to repackage and rewrite their blurb. I also complained about Sylk and a very dodgy practitioner who set up as a hormone consultant with no medical degree but was implying she is a doctor and offered cobsultations for £90.
Jacks

[susan]

One thing that really got my goat was the Yes, yes, yes vaginal lube web-site. I saw a few women going into print saying that it must be a great product as the website selling it was full of references from women saying how wonderful it was and how it had dealt with their vaginal dryness and that they and their partners were so happy and now had a full and happy sex life etc.

I looked at the web- site and my hubbie could have knocked up something similar.there was no way you could verify who had put up these so called 'glowing' references of this product. It was also pretty expensive compared to other lines that people chuck into their supermarket trolleys like Durex play etc and that was all it really was, a sex lube. But the people on the site I was on were going to be using it to try and address vaginal atrophy which is really a medical issue.

Bit upsetting really taking advantage of desperate women in that way.

xxxx

[susan]

Femarelle is another one who look a bit suspect to me, people who are having the menopause from hell totally 'cured' in five weeks according to some of the glowing testimonies.

I don't think that if you are having a really bad menopause even HRT can 'cure' you in just five weeks. So that makes these miracle products seem even more suspect. Hormones deplete over months and years so you have to be a bit realistic as to recovery time frames unfortunately.

xxxx

[jacksfullofaces]

Another things that concerns me is these products which claim to cure atrophy might cause damage by being used during sex and tearing delicate tissue. When I saw a gynaecologist he tried to convince me his lubricant was adequate. It was icy cold and didnt have any listed ingredients so I laughed and told him I doubted it did anything for vaginal health and I was sticking with my estriol.
Completely absurd and potentially damaging not to mention the possibility of encouraging bladder infections and cystoceles through lack of oestrogen.
As for supplements if I see meno or Lady I know it will be the same silly formula of multi vitamins with a hefty price tag.
We don't treat a vitamin deficiency with hormones so how does anyone justify treating a hormoine deficiency with vitamins.
Jacks
Jacks
Jacks

[susan]

:-/I feel that sex lubes are really only suitable for younger women who have plenty of their own natural oestrogen left in their vagina.

Once you get to an age where your own oestrogen is starting to deplete they can create an illusion that things are OK down there when they really aren't. That is pretty worrying as you say as you could be doing damage if you have a very active sex life ( here's hoping ). There seem to be a few irresponsible products out there that if taken at face value could do more harm than good.

xxxx

[susan]

Don't apologies for thinking you seem garbled. I'm always delighted to see replys and other info and ideas put into a debate. One is never sure when putting up a new topic if anyone is actually going to be interested in it.

It struck me that it is all so complicated & many women are taking chances with their health, often because they have been frightened away from hormones. They then desperately need relief from bad symptoms & have to look at all these varied items many of which don't seem to have solid science behind them and come with convincing and glossy advertising campaigns filled with 'happy customers'

I do appreciate you distinguishing from the two different kinds of these products such as the straightforward taking of a little bit extra vitamin C, vitamin D, calcium etc and the other stuff I was ranting about.

I didn't make those distinctions between the two as a) they didnt occur to me and b) I wanted to get my thoughts on here before it went out of my head and I lost the point I was trying to make.

I'm not wanting to come across as too extreme, but feel women should be a lot more questioning about some of these 'cures alls' & think why has this website got a lot similar testimonies on it? Are they genuine ? Maybe email the company and see what sort of answers you get when asking maybe a few difficult questions.

There also seems to be fashions and modes, one year a magnet will be all the rage , them when there are 1000 of blogs on the internet how they are all in peoples drawers but they are not sure where and they should really dig it out snd give it another chance, then it will be some herbal concoction packaged and sold at huge profit in Boots et al.

Getting tired myself now so better stop rambling. Nite folks.

xxxx

[Robyn]

Unfortunately these natural and alternative advocates are just playing on the fears of women because of the supposed “dangers” of HRT. Hopefully as time goes, and more focus is placed on the fact that HRT isn’t dangerous, as they are now admitting, these people will fade into the background because people will realize that their remedies just don’t work, and they will stop giving them money.

I will admit to being someone who fell for the natural remedy route. I went to a naturopath for three months, paid her somewhere around $3,000 and I felt worse at the end than I did at the beginning. At one point I was probably taking around 20 or more tablets of various kinds throughout the day. Her theory was that I needed to rid my body of the evil oestrogen (yeah I know….) and she was actually congratulating herself when my oestrogen levels were lower at the end of the three months than they were at the beginning.

One of her remedies was so toxic to my system that I had constant diarrhea. As soon as I ate anything I was rushing to the toilet with really bad stomach cramps and the really explosive kind (sorry if TMI). I was supposed to use that potion for two weeks, but I gave up after about 5 days, which she wasn’t happy about. Her attitude to me not responding to the treatment was to make me feel like I freak, because “it works for all my other patients”, and her solution was for me to try another three months of her treatment…..yeah right…..

The only good thing that I got from seeing her is that she tested my muscle mass (which is excellent - and so it should be because I work out regularly) and my testosterone levels are fine so I don't need to worry about that.

So I get really angry when I see all these websites telling women all they have to do is take some black cohosh or red clover or purple pansies, or whatever, and they will feel wonderful. Bullc**p!!! The only thing that will make you feel good is if you replace the hormones that you are lacking.

[jacksfullofaces]

Her attitude to me not responding to the treatment was to make me feel like I freak, because “it works for all my other patients”, and her solution was for me to try another three months of her treatment…..yeah right…..

Yes they all try that old line. I had one trying to convince me the reason that facial exercises hadn't eliminated my jowls was because I hadn't tried hard enough. They try and put a guilt / inadquate trip on you.
Jacks

[jacksfullofaces]

Ditto some of the products that are natural to us eg picking random hormones from our complex endocrine system - aside from those that are known to decline with age or meno, organ failure etc - and just dropping them into the mix to enter into the complex feedback system. You can't just do that without proper investigation. It doesn't matter if they don't work - but if they cause harm in the long term because they become something else in the body which eg could lead to cancer then that's bad. Dosing of such hormones needs very careful monitoring to work out the extact dose.

Guilty as charged I occasionally use small doses of DHEA excellent for muscle pain and recommended by my doctor for my EDS less toxic then large doses of painkillers. I was cautioned to use a low dose which does the trick when needed. I also use a tiny dose of pregnenolone which is excellent for memory. I worked it out using Thierry Hertoghe's book. Hertoghe is a fourth generation endocrinologist and his book give check lists and warns which hormones should only be used under medical supervision and he recommends conservative doses.
We are all individual with different hormone needs. If a person used levothyroxine without needing the hormone they would experience some unpleasant effects but apparently some women buy it to lose weight.
Jacks

[jacksfullofaces]

Sept 20, 2012 22:44:17 GMT @bellaciao said:

Sept 20, 2012 8:20:54 GMT jacksfullofaces said:

Guilty as charged I occasionally use small doses of DHEA excellent for muscle pain and recommended by my doctor for my EDS less toxic then large doses of painkillers. I was cautioned to use a low dose which does the trick when needed. I also use a tiny dose of pregnenolone which is excellent for memory. I worked it out using Thierry Hertoghe's book. Hertoghe is a fourth generation endocrinologist and his book give check lists and warns which hormones should only be used under medical supervision and he recommends conservative doses.
We are all individual with different hormone needs. If a person used levothyroxine without needing the hormone they would experience some unpleasant effects but apparently some women buy it to lose weight.
Jacks

Yes I can understand how difficult it is - and the point Susan was making and others (you as well i expect - it;s late again and I can;t remember!) is that many womnen are gullible and will try anything - so with the thyroixine example - not ideal ditto with the DHEA. Not everyone is as knoweldgeable and well read as you and just get taken in by it all - so without any proper trials and doses just take everything at face value from all these ( mainly American) websites. No offence to anyone from US but qwith the different healthcare system there is more money to be made. Even so many products are pushed without approval from the ?FDA (is that right) so I hear.
Bellaciao x

Government approval and protocol is not always the be all and end all. I think all women should educate themselves thoroughly about their health. A few days ago I asked a pharmacist to help me with a decongestant which wouldn't irritate my thyroid. When I got home I read the enclosed leaflet and it said " do not use if you have a thyroid issue"
That chemist is government endorsed but had I taken his word I would have felt unwell from using medicine recommended by a health professional presented with my medical condition. As a result I wasted my money because the information was not on the outside of the box.
The NHS sites often offer sloppy poor information. Last year I had a stomach upset and husband diagnosed me with Crohns Disease having read it on the NHS diagnostic site. I laughed myself silly as I knew it wasn't Crohns.
Meh don't always trust government information.
Jacks