Vagifem;no trials on more than 2x10mcgs a week

[susan]

I was just reading some more information on the withdrawal on the vagifem 25 mcg that have been around for 30 years.

I noticed that Novo Nordisk have a disclaimer that they can't comment on the usage of more than the two x 10 mcgs a week doseage.

Suddenly occurred to me how convenient that is for them. That means that anyone who uses more than two x 10 mcgs a week is in effect self medicating and has no comeback whatsoever if any thing goes wrong, won't be able to sue etc etc

There is no reason why they couldn't have tested the vaibility of 10 mcgs using 3 or 4 a week to see if they are safe, especially for the many who have been using 2 x 25 Mcgs

It's not like there has been many press releases in the last 30 years of women dropping dead from vagifem overuse.

I guess as they have managed to put the price up by more than 100 % and ergo their profit by 100 % in one fell swoop, they couldn't care less about the actual women and their comfort.

Because of the internet and women now speaking out about vaginal issues more than ever and the negative effect on both their health and their sex lives, due to lack of oestrogen this product has become one hell of a big cash cow for them.

xxxx

[jacksfullofaces]

have noticed that Novo Nordisk have a disclaimer that they can't comment on the usage of more than the two 10 mcgs a week doseage.

Suddenly occurred to me how convenient that is for them. That means that anyone who uses more than two 10 mcgs a week is in effect self medicating and had no comback whatsoever if any thing goes wrong, won't be able to sue etc etc

Susan
How could they prove a woman had used more than 20 mcgs a week?
Jacks xx

[susan]

Not sure Jacks, I think it is just that I don't trust drug company's and dont understand why they have suddenly changed the doseage on this after all these years. Also if GP's know this then I can't imagine then prescribing enough for us to have more than two a week as they normally prescribe in line with the information in the leaflets. Maybe that is what will happen and then there won't be an option to take three a week. I'm not sure what to do as I am pretty certain 10 mgs twice a week won't cut it for me as I still sometimes feel itchy on 2 x 25. I am wondering if to get some 10 mcgs and try and use one 10 mcg and one 25 mcg a week and see if I can get my body used to it. Think I am going into panic mode.

I wonder how women who only have vaginal oestrogen in the form of vagifem and not systemic HRT will get on with the 10 mcgs?

Might mean more women end up on systemic ?

Sorry rambling as am typing this as my thoughts are coming out so probably not thinking it hrough properly, what do you think?

xxxx

[jacksfullofaces]

Susan
The companies are cashing in on the scares involving hormones. Even with systemic HRT there is a trend towards marketing lower dose ineffective products. This is bad news on several fronts
The dose being ineffective convinces the user that hormones don't work for her and she gives up
The drug companies are targeting women in menopause with anti depressants with the conivance of psychiatrists
The myth begins that a low dose of estradiol is safe but not a high dose which completely relieves the symptoms.
It is my personal view that if a woman is still suffering symptoms
she either requires a higher dose
or something else is going on i.e thyroid issues
But with doctors intent on offering low dose regimes all kinds of confusion is guaranteed.
Personally I use Ovestin which is difficult to regulate by the dose and I use as and when needed.
My own cynical view is that women in menopause are being driven away from hormone use - although younger women are encouraged to use them whenever they feel it is appropriate.
This is medicine and NHS politics in tandem.
They know most women will do as they are told and therefore get away with it.
I spoke to a friend recently in her late 50's who was unable to have a smear due to atrophy. I asked why she wasn't using a cream and she replied that it didn't matter because she was sexually inactive. I did tell her she was risking the health of her pelvic floor but she turned a deaf ear.
Jacks
Jacks

[susan]

Lots of interesting points.

I think smaller does of vaginal oestrogen are more dangerous than higher ones and that it really needs to be taken as detailed in the box.

I listed to a medscape videapod that more of less said this.

If you go down to once a week, it's more likely to go systemic than if you take it twice a week.

The vaginal walls need to be coated properly so that it doesn't get obsorbed, and I cant see one 10 mcg tablet a week doing that.

Probably more important for women who aren't on a systemic HRT with progesterone in it, as they are relying on the vagifem alone to stop it seeping inwards.

The obsession with low dose regimes is doing women a dis-service. There is more or less irrefutable evidence that HRT will deal with 85% of womens menopause symptoms, that has been gathered over the last 75 years. I suspect the 15% failure rate is due to poor prescribing (ie not the correct dose, wrong type of prog for the individual etc) and nothing to do with HRT per say.

I've put up a link on Citalopram which is one of the Docs fav drugs for menopause these days.

People go on about now knowing the long tem effects of HRT but its been around a lot longer that Citalopram, I sometimes wonder if all this prescribing of anti-depressants is contributing to the increase in alzheimers in the female population as far more AD's are prescribed to women than men.

xxxx

I suspect the 15% failure rate is due to poor prescribing and nothing to do with HRT per say.

I really cant see

[menomale]

Whether it's scaremongering, commercial strategy or reality, only manufacturers know, but this is what NovoNordisk has sent GPs to justify the withdrawal of Vagifem 25mcg.